Supernatural

There is a lot of drama swirling about in the historically-inspired “Reign” and Adam Croasdell has been in the thick of it since joining the show as Bothwell in its fourth and final season. Prior to becoming a suitor to Mary, Queen of Scots, the Zimbabwe native appeared in fan-favorite series like “NCIS,” “Once Upon a Time,” and “Supernatural.” Studying and performing throughout the world enabled Croasdell to embrace all cultures and points of view, an exercise in acceptance that he has applied to his acting, particularly in the process of discovering new characters.

We recently sat down with Croasdell to discuss how there is no such thing as a bad guy, managing the time crunch of television, and how he was instantaneously accepted into the “Supernatural” fandom after appearing as Norse god Baldur.

TrunkSpace: From what we read, you’ve lived all over the world. From an acting perspective, has that exposure to different people and cultures enabled you to better find who characters are?
Croasdell: Yeah. I’ve lived all over the world. I was born and raised in Africa to English parents and then lived in various countries across there and then in the UK before coming across to the United States. I think it’s a good question because what I often say to people is that if one has the ability or means to travel than it should be mandatory for the very reason that it really gives you an insight into what makes other people tick. It makes you much more tolerant of differences and much more celebratory of different ideas. I think when a person unfortunately is lost very much into their own culture, whatever that is, it can lead to problems because they believe that their way is the right way or the only way of doing things. I think it’s kind of a myopic view. So I feel very lucky to have been able to travel so much and to have lived in so many places. I think it certainly has informed the way that I approach a role and a character.

I said at a convention recently during a question and answer session that I play a lot of quirky characters… eccentric characters. A lot of “bad guys.” And to me that’s an unsatisfactory idea… the idea of a bad guy. Because to me a bad guy is somebody who has followed a perfectly natural chain of thought processes to arrive at the action that he’s doing, which appear bad, but actually it’s completely normal and attributable to his worldview and life experience. So I try very hard not to judge any character that I’m playing because it’s perfectly natural and normal for them to be doing the thing that they’re doing and I find that fascinating. I think I probably wouldn’t have arrived at that had I not done so much traveling and lived in so many places.

TrunkSpace: Because at the end of the day, the “bad guy” himself doesn’t view his actions as bad.
Croasdell: Quite right. It’s completely normal what they’re doing. It’s completely rational and I find that fascinating. The stereotypical views that we have of other people and even people in our own lives… it’s just a shorthand and lazy thinking. I find it quite fascinating to be able to delve into the mindset beyond that.

TrunkSpace: So in terms of those various places that you have lived, did you also train in those different locations and did the education itself differ from place to place?
Croasdell: Yes. I trained in South Africa and it was a very interesting time. The ANC had just come into power after years of apartheid. It was a very fascinating time in history. I was very proud to had been there for that. I hail from Zimbabwe so the whole time I was growing up, I had a racially-integrated school system and social structure. South Africa at that time was a little bit more closed off to that type of thinking, but by the time that I had arrived, Nelson Mandela had just come to power and was the new president. It was a very exciting time. So it was interesting watching all that in flux around me and the new order coming in. It was a privilege to watch it happen. And certainly training in South Africa you are given a very broad training but also specifically in the classics with English playwrights and American playwrights. Of course, we had the African playwrights as well, which we studied, and modes of African performance, which are quite different and really fascinating. I was very happy to have received from both the western world and from Africa as well and everything Africa has to give. It’s a culture filled with great storytellers and musicians and poets. It’s incredibly rich and diverse, so I think I received a very good training indeed. I was very lucky.

TrunkSpace: You’ve been working steadily in film and television since the late 90s. How have you seen the way the industry approaches storytelling change over the years?
Croasdell: When I think about the late 80s and early 90s, it was a sort of a lighter age of performance, especially on TV. The characters were very likable, but they had A thing and they did THAT thing that they did and we loved watching the show for that. Now we have this Golden Age of television, which is truly incredible. The quality that is coming out of TV these days is astonishing and it has become an entirely different beast. The characters have much more depth. The heroes are anti-heroes. The female-driven stories are incredible… stories for women by women. It is an amazing smorgasbord of phenomenal writing and phenomenal characters right now. It’s a great time to be an actor.

I was saying this the other day, that there is a fair amount of 80s nostalgia that has come about because of it, I think. In the 80s and early 90s there was a sort of innocence about television, and maybe even films, where things were pretty straightforward and the hero was pretty straightforward and the bad guy was pretty straightforward. We had a lot of fun watching what the hero did to the bad guy and what the bad guy did to the hero. That was the mode. Now it’s hyper-realistic and much grittier. There’s a lot more sex and ultra-violence, often that speaks of the realities of this planet. But it’s interesting that it has lead to a sort of 80s nostalgia and you can see it in “Guardians of the Galaxy” and where they’re rebooting all of these 80s TV shows all of the time. And they often fail, generally, because people have moved on. You sometimes get it in the movies where they hit massively like “Guardians of the Galaxy,” but in TV, I think it has moved on. I’m watching “Breaking Bad” at the moment, binge watching it, and really, what Bryan Cranston manages to do with his character is astonishing. I remember watching him on “Malcolm in the Middle” and sort of going, “Okay, cool…” and now you watch him in “Breaking Bad” and the depth of characterization that you can go to in today’s TV world… it would be a dream to get a reoccurring on something like that. The writing is so good these days. It’s an utter gift and to be able to go into the headspace of the characters in a way that you never have the time to do in a film and just develop it and develop it out… Bryan Cranston does it magnificently and deserves all of the accolades for it. It seems to be an example of the way TV has gone and binge watching on Netflix is just so new too and we want to see it ALL immediately. You can get a really good feel for the same character and their arc.

TrunkSpace: So does it feel like things have flipped a bit and working in TV has sort of become the new version of film… especially from a production aspect as the medium continues to grow?
Croasdell: Yeah, I think there’s a lot to that. Although, in my experience with TV acting, you still are so on the clock. They want you to bang out the performance quickly. I did a movie back in South Africa a couple of years ago called “Hatchet Hour” and we had the amazing luck to be able to rehearse for 10 days ahead of shooting. That’s sort of almost unheard of even in movies these days, but you certainly don’t get that in TV. You get nowhere near that. You might have a rehearsal or two rehearsals and then you’re up and running and you’ve got to bang out the scene. Although it’s nice to think of it being more like movies, in terms of the process for the actor, it’s not necessarily because time is money and you’ve got to get on it.

But that’s an interesting challenge for the actor because you have to come to work, as I hope one always would, very prepared. You have to be ready to deliver the goods almost instantaneously. And if you get a second take or a third take or a fourth take, if you’re lucky, you have a few ideas in mind to try things. You have to almost train like an athlete to do that type of acting.

TrunkSpace: So when you’re in that mindset and working within that focus, does it change things up when you’re working on a series and a new director is suddenly involved in the process and by doing so, alters the tone and dynamic?
Croasdell: Absolutely. It’s always very interesting when you do ongoing drama and the director changes. Obviously it should be a wonderful dance where they come in with their ideas, which are often brilliant, and then mix with your ideas. What I realized for myself is that, a lot of the directors, some of who may be great fans of the show and know exactly what’s going on, often they’re directors-for-hire, so they’re out and about in the world doing other projects as well. What I finally realized was that nobody knows the character or your character’s arc better than you and the writers, so often times you have to approach the director and go, “That’s a great idea, but my character wouldn’t really do that.” And you can tell them the reasons why because no one is thinking about it more than you. It’s always about being open to them and their vision, but you help each other.

TrunkSpace: So as you look over your body of work, what project had the greatest impact on your career?
Croasdell: Well, the one that immediately comes to mind… and it’s probably not for the reasons that you’re thinking of… I was on a soap in England called “EastEnders,” which is a very well known soap over there. It’s watched by the majority of the country. I had the good fortune of landing the role of the doctor on the show and that was for a year ahead of me coming to the US. I always wanted to come out to the States and getting that job, which was a high profile job in the UK, provided me with the money and some of the profile needed to create a case for my green card to get me to the United States. I always wanted to come to the United States because over the course of living in the UK for many years, I was flown out to the States about four or five times to test for various pilots and I came down to the wire for some, probably the biggest one of which was “Prison Break.” After that, I thought that I had to be present in the United States, and so I went about wanting to get here and did all of my application stuff. But really it was “EastEnders” that allowed me to come here.

TrunkSpace: You appeared on “Supernatural” many years ago. It was one episode, but an episode that many in the fandom love and in a time period where viewers consider the show at its peak as far as storytelling goes. Has that fandom stuck with you?
Croasdell: Yeah. It really has. And that’s the thing that’s been surprising and delightful about the American TV shows. I have found fanbases on “Reign,” “Once Upon a Time,” and also “Supernatural” to be just phenomenal. Phenomenal fanbases filled with really phenomenal people. You get welcomed instantaneously as part of the gang, certainly on “Supernatural.” I was playing the Norse god Baldur and I had some great scenes with the Winchester lads. It was my first job after having arrived in the States. Literally, I arrived in the States and 10 days later I was in Canada shooting.

TrunkSpace: You come to the States to shoot and you’re sent to Canada!
Croasdell: (Laughter) Yeah. Actually, a lot of my jobs have been up in Canada. A lot of my work. “Reign,” “Supernatural,” “Once Upon a Time”… and another as well. I love going up to Canada. I love it.

But yeah, the fans are phenomenal. Just the other night there was a book launch for a “Supernatural” book that a lot of the actors had contributed to. I was there and people were coming up to me like, “Hey, you’re Baldur!” I was like, “How can you even remember that? That was like seven years ago!” (Laughter)

It’s a phenomenon that I was totally unused to, being an English actor. There’s not a fanbase in the same way over there. People play it a bit cool in the UK sometimes. Here, if people like a show, they really like a show and they’re not afraid to say it, which is wonderful for the actors.

The series finale of “Reign” airs tonight on The CW.

Travis Wester grew up a fanboy. He attended conventions, geeked out about “Star Trek,” and spent prolonged periods of time rolling 20-sided die. He was a proud, card-carrying member of nerd culture long before nerd culture became the cool faction. And now, as a grown up, Wester has found himself a part of the most passionate fandom universe of the current pop culture age thanks to his turn in “Supernatural” where he reoccurs as Harry Spangler, founding member of Ghostfacers.

We recently sat down with Wester to discuss the SPN Family, going from con attendee to invited guest, and what it was like to work with Tim Curry.

TrunkSpace: You’ve acted in so many great shows over the years, but in your experience, did any of their fandoms compare to that of “Supernatural” when it came to the passion and love for a particular show?
Wester: There’s no comparison between any fandoms. I was kind of one of the proto “Star Wars” fandom people, I think. I still remember wearing “Star Wars” T-shirts to school back in the early 90s.

I just dated myself.

I kind of came up in the geek community. I used to play “Dungeons & Dragons” in high school and stuff like that. In fact I’ve recently been told about Magic: The Gathering and want to give that a go, a friend even sent me these mtg arena codes I might try. I went to “Star Trek” conventions when I was 12. That kind of stuff. So I’m very familiar with fandoms and I’ve got to say, the “Supernatural” fandom is absolutely a thing of beauty. The fact that they think of themselves as family, it’s really something else. It’s all the good parts of tribalism in my opinion. It’s all about togetherness and community and maybe I’m sort of outside the bubble perhaps, but I’m not super aware that they go out and attack people and make people from other fandoms feel bad or anything like that. Like I said, it’s all the best parts of tribalism where you feel like you’re part of a community and everyone supports each other.

When you’re out and about and you see someone with an “Assbutt” shirt or something like that, you kind of give them the knowing nod. It’s really cool.

And it’s also sort of underground, which I like about it too. People who are into it are super into it, but people who aren’t into it are barely aware of it. It almost kind of reminds me of a “Vampire: The Masquerade” of fandoms. Once you’re in the “Supernatural” fandom, you can exist in all of these other fandoms, but you’re in this other dimension when you step into the “Supernatural” fandom.

TrunkSpace: It seems like every actor and actress who has appeared on the show is genuinely and wholeheartedly excited to have been a part of it.
Wester: I think a lot of that has to do with the guys… J & J, Jared and Jensen. You go up there and you feel like part of a family while you’re up there. I think what happens with a lot of actors is that they get up there, they do the work, and they kind of feel like they’re a part of that family because Jared and Jensen are so welcoming and they’re just such awesome guys to have on set. I don’t think anyone has ever gone up there and has been like, “Aww, man… Jared and Jensen! They hardly talked to me. God, they’re such jerks!” (Laughter) I have never spoken to anyone that has been on the show that has thought that. The culture of family really starts with them. They’re both from Texas and they both have families themselves and I think it kind of starts there.

And then when you’re done with the show and you get invited out to a convention or something and you show up and you meet the fans… you see how that culture has spread out into the fandom. You can’t help but get excited. You can’t help but be stoked that you’re a part of this project. People use the word systemic a lot and a lot of times they misuse it. Systemic means it’s root to tip. It’s root to stem… it’s the whole system. I think that when it comes to “Supernatural” it is systemically a family because it starts right with Jared and Jensen and it goes out to everyone in the community.

TrunkSpace: You were working in TV for over a decade before you stepped into the role of Harry Spangler on “Supernatural.” With the show being so early in its life cycle at that time and when the network itself was kind of in flux, did you have any idea that you’d still be talking about it now and participating in conventions and all sides of the fandom?
Wester: None. No. You’re right, I did a lot of work in TV up until then and I’ve done plenty of pilots and shows where it was like… show number three, their third episode ever. And then five episodes later the show is in the wind and it’s gone. If you look at my resume, I’m sure you’d see a lot of that. So, you get on a show like “Supernatural” and it was kind of at a time when the WB was a thing and the CW was still a thing. They were two separate networks. I remember, I think it was while we were filming that episode, we got the news. I remember Jared coming out of his trailer and telling Jensen, “Hey, the WB and CW just merged.” And they were looking at each other and Jensen was like, “What does that mean for us?” And Jared was like, “I don’t know, bro!” (Laughter)

It was at a time when the WB was throwing a lot of stuff at the wall. They had a lot of success with “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” so I think they felt like that there was something in that genre and it wasn’t the only thing like that that they were trying at the time, but I think the reason it stuck is… it all comes down to the story. The universe that Eric Kripke created allows us as an audience to play ourselves in the narrative in a way that is fairly rare and something that I think most show runners are striving for.

TrunkSpace: You mentioned that as a kid you used to go to “Star Trek” conventions. What is it like for you now being on the other side of the convention table?
Wester: I think I’m fairly unique amongst actors. I don’t think too many of them have ever actually been paying members of any conventions, much less paying members of like, a role playing game convention, which I have also been to. (Laughter)

One of the best times I’ve ever had in my entire life… I think I was like 15… and I got my dad to agree to allow my buddy and I to go to a convention and actually stay overnight at the hotel. For two nights. We were able to go Friday to Sunday and we just played games for hours and hours and hours.

Anyway… so I don’t think too many actors have had that experience, so for me, it was kind of emotional at first to be on the other side of it.

TrunkSpace: Knowing that you are a fanboy yourself, how cool was it to work opposite Dr. Frank-N-Furter himself, Tim Curry in “Turbocharged Thunderbirds?”
Wester: It was intimidating. Just seeing him on set, I was like, “Oh my God, it’s Tim Curry!” I actually met my wife at “The Rocky Horror Picture Show.”

TrunkSpace: Nice!
Wester: Yeah. I first went to Rocky when I was like 15. Being able to be around Tim Curry and to say that I’ve worked with him, it was pretty exciting.

Nice dig, dude! That was a deep dig. That was actually my first narrative TV gig too.

TrunkSpace: You did quite a few episodes, right?
Wester: Yeah. We did like 13 or something like that. It was back when “Power Rangers” were hot, so they were trying to find something in that space… something in the space of mixing their own live action with stock puppetry that they had already purchased. Tim Curry was like the main bad guy. It was awesome.

Honestly, I don’t care what they do with the new “It.” Tim Curry’s always going to be “It” to me!

TrunkSpace: One character that you played who really seemed to deserve more fleshing out because there seemed to be a side to him that the audience never got to see was Billy Mac from “Justified.” He was a pretty straight forward guy on the surface, but there was some stuff going on underneath it all that deserved some exploring.
Wester: I thought so too, but I guess the narrative demands of season 1 of “Justified” called for someone getting shot in the head. (Laughter)

That was actually one of the more challenging characters that I think I’ve ever played just because I had to be straight up racist to a black man to his face while we were acting. For sure, that was maybe some of the most uncomfortable I’ve been on set, but it was also kind of the most transcendental because I rarely feel like I’m just completely synthesizing and fabricating a character. Most times I feel like there’s something in there that I’m tapping into that’s really a part of me. Obviously acting is always kind of like that, but with Billy Mac I felt like I was having to tap into the mirror version of me… the Travis with the evil goatee and what I would be in that other evil dimension. I was kind of having to reach through the dimensions and tap into that. So that was intense.

TrunkSpace: Timothy Olyphant’s character was such a bad ass on “Justified” and Jensen Ackles character is such a bad ass on “Supernatural,” so if the two universes met and Raylan Givens and Dean Winchester had to go toe-to-toe… how would that play out?
Wester: (Laughter) Well, guns or no guns?

TrunkSpace: They both like their guns, so it would make sense that they’d be packing.
Wester: If it’s a straight up duel… they go out into the middle of the street and it’s just a showdown… I’m going to go with Raylan. But, if it’s just kind of a bare knuckle, shirts off, guns are cast aside thing like that, where it’s sort of Captain Kirk meets the lizard guy type of situation, I’m going to go with Dean.

TrunkSpace: You just got the fandom in a tizzy because you said “shirts off” in the middle of that.
Wester: (Laughter) Yeah. So if Raylan’s shirt is off and Dean’s shirt is off and they’re just bare knuckling it, yeah, I think Dean’s got the edge.

TrunkSpace: So looking back over your career and at all of the projects that you’ve worked on, what is the one that has had the most profound impact on you?
Wester: I’d have to say the “Supernatural” role. It’s been the most fun ride. It’s sort of carried on. And it kind of inspired me the most creatively. A.J. (Buckley) and I got together to make a number of shorts, which I think are still available on the internet somewhere. We put together a quick thing of us going down to San Diego Comic Con back almost 10 years ago. We were both just really energized by these characters and I don’t think I’ve ever been so inspired after a shoot wraps to try to continue to explore that character because I enjoyed it so much.

TrunkSpace: With that being said, has there been talk to bring the Ghostfacers back?
Wester: There was talk of it, but A.J. is on this new “Seal Team” show on CBS, so he’s going to be out there taking down ISIS or whatever on CBS. (Laughter)

But we were… those talks were happening.

Just so we’re clear, TrunkSpace is not monkeying around with this interview.

And yes, while that was a terrible pun to lead into our chat with Aleks Paunovic of the upcoming “War for the Planet of the Apes,” we’re not going to apologize, and here’s why. As unfunny as it was, it actually applies. Paunovic is deadly serious about his craft, and even more so, he’s passionate about the work, right down to his memorable guest spot on the series “Supernatural.” The excitement he absorbs from playing his various roles, including that of Julius the vampire in Syfy’s “Van Helsing,” is apparent in every aspect of his delivery. This is a man who genuinely loves his job and is grateful for every opportunity he receives, which is a breath of fresh air in a world where it seems so many take so much for granted.

We recently sat down with Paunovic to discuss season 2 of “Van Helsing,” how he’d like to share even more, and how playing a primate means playing human.

TrunkSpace: We have to start with something that is a big guilty pleasure of ours here, which is “Supernatural.”
Paunovic: That’s awesome!

TrunkSpace: You guested as Gunner Lawless in “Beyond the Mat,” one of the more memorable episodes from last season and we’re curious if getting a small taste of that universe has opened you up to the very passionate fanbase?
Paunovic: Well, I was in two more episodes before that as two completely different characters.

TrunkSpace: That’s right. You actually played one of the skinwalkers in one episode, right?
Paunovic: Yeah! And it opened me up in that realm because the fans are so on point that it was surprising to me because I started getting people noticing me or contacting me and doing that whole thing because I was a part of the show. But then, Gunner Lawless and that wrestling episode, to me, was just a gift for a role. And everybody that’s a part of that show just embraced me with taking on such a great role. I got to learn the wrestling aspect of it and it was just a blast, man.

TrunkSpace: What’s so great about that series is that it’s sort of a hybrid of comedy and drama. When they do the comedy it’s gold and when they do the drama it’s heartfelt and that “Beyond the Mat” episode is a perfect example of that.
Paunovic: Yeah. I totally agree. I just love what they do with that show. There’s a reason why it’s going 12 years. I just love how they mix the drama and the emotionality with the humor of it. I just love how they make that work and not a lot of shows do that. So again, I was really blessed to be a part of that.

TrunkSpace: Going from a series that is often about vampires in “Supernatural” to a series where you play one in “Van Helsing,” from an actors perspective, we have to imagine that playing in that science fiction/genre sandbox must be a load of fun because you really get to step out of reality for a little bit.
Paunovic: That’s right on point. That’s exactly it. You nailed it. For me, it’s such a blast because you literally get to… when you’re a kid you play Cowboys and Indians or you play whatever your imagination can take you to. I’m kind of still doing it, so it’s kind of fun that I can jump into a show like “Van Helsing” and really kind of explore the “what ifs” and really drop it down into a reality based type of thing, even though it’s fantastical.

TrunkSpace: You’ll be returning as Julius in season 2 of “Van Helsing,” but do you have any idea where his arc will take you?
Paunovic: We’re in the middle of shooting it right now and all I can say is that I’m over the moon with the arc that has happened with my character. And even the show… the first year you kind of hope that fans connect to it, but as a well oiled machine, especially with Neil LaBute at the helm, we’re really gearing into season 2 and it’s feeling amazing. I cannot wait for people to see where Julius has gone.

TrunkSpace: In a time of leaks and spoilers, we understand why NDAs exist, but at the same time, it must be difficult to not be able to discuss something like that when you’re so excited about the work.
Paunovic: Dude, I’m busting at the seams. I’m rocking my mind about how much I want to talk about it or Tweet about it or Instagram about it because, no joke, when you see this season and what my character is going through, you’ll go, “How did he keep that in?” But for me, I get the surprise aspect of it and I’m really looking forward to the surprise and for people to kind of get blown away with a lot of the things that are happening with Julius. Yeah… I’m busting at the seams, man. I cannot wait for people to see this season.

TrunkSpace: Something else we’d imagine you’re pretty excited for people to see is “War for the Planet of the Apes.” When you landed that role, what was your initial thought with getting a part in such a storied franchise?
Paunovic: Well, it was a little trippy because, like you said, it’s such a storied franchise. I saved my audition side because I thought that was it. I was just celebrating the fact that I got an audition for it. I never thought that it would go anywhere further. To me, it was just like, “I got an audition for ‘Planet of the Apes.’ That’s awesome!” And end of story. That was it for me. And then it grew into about five auditions until I finally got the role and I was still shaking my head at it. And then going to work and… it’s next level.

Matt Reeves who directed it and Andy Serkis, who was phenomenal… Andy was an extension of Matt Reeves and them working on this project together was just a joy to be around. Being a part of it, again, is next level.

TrunkSpace: The last film in the franchise is, although fantastical, so grounded in reality. And the trailer for “War for the Planet of the Apes” seems to carry that torch forward while also playing off as very intense. It seems like a crazy ride.
Paunovic: It is. Honestly, the mood on set was never like the fantastical aspect of playing primates and playing apes. It was literally like, we’re telling a story and this is the story we’re telling in the most real sense. So there was no feeling of it being not in reality. That was the cool thing, especially with Andy. Andy took it all very seriously and helped everyone along with it. So, the new characters that were introduced… we got to basically be guided by Andy/Caesar, but the last thing we ever thought was that it wasn’t reality. That was the cool thing.

TrunkSpace: So in playing Winter, did a lot of it rely on the physicality aspect of playing a gorilla?
Paunovic: It’s interesting. You would think, and even when I was going to the auditions you would think, but the bottom line was the acting. It was the emotionality of the character and the story that these characters were telling. Each character has their own story and you cannot get away with… like, for instance… it’s emotionality and telling the story first, primate second. That’s just how it came down. When we first started, it was all about sitting and being vulnerable and open with the story that we were going to tell before we actually got up and did any physicality as a primate. Matt Reeves and Terry Notary were big believers in that it’s about story first and then everything else falls into it afterward.

TrunkSpace: Well, the key is that as an audience you stop seeing them as primates and start seeing them as characters, which was more than successful with “Dawn of the Planet of the Apes.”
Paunovic: Yeah. And that’s all Matt Reeves. Matt, Terry, and Andy… those three really helped everyone dive in. The last thing that we did was wanted to be apes. Everything first was story, so we got really lucky.

TrunkSpace: So it sounds like it’s more of a drama than an action tentpole?
Paunovic: Totally. Absolutely. Absolutely!

TrunkSpace: So with a movie of this size there’s obviously a lot of marketing materials and merchandising. Are we going to see Winter represented in any sort of cool merchandise and does it kind of blow your mind to see that kind of stuff?
Paunovic: You know what? You’re the first person to actually mention it to me and I just went, “Oh my God that’s right. I could actually be an action figure.” That just kind of blows me away. That would be cool.

TrunkSpace: I addition to your acting career, you have also been producing, particularly with one film that caught our attention called “Puppet Killer.” What is it that drew you to the producing side of the business?
Paunovic: One of the reasons why I love the producing aspect of the business, and I really got serious about it with a film called “Numb” that I was a part of, it’s the connection and relationships and troubleshooting on set that I really took pride in. Taking charge and jamming with the other producers and director and figuring out ways that we can make this work and make that work and help the story. I absolutely loved it. So when I had the opportunity to do that with “Puppet Killer,” which is a film coming out that happened to just be super fun… and Richard Harmon who is in “The 100” is a part of it also. We just had a blast shooting it and the producer role was basically one of those things where I just wanted to take on a little bit more responsibility and help the film along. I can’t wait for it to come out.

TrunkSpace: So is producing something you want to continue to pursue in your career?
Paunovic: Absolutely. I do love being a part of something more than just getting hired as an actor, do my thing, say bye to everyone, and then I’m out. I love the aspect of the long haul and being a part of it and building those relationships. Going through those trials and tribulations of making a film or a series and kind of everyone standing tall and believing what they put down. For the film “Numb” that I did, that was like four years before we actually went to camera. Almost five years before we went to camera. So that journey when we actually did go to camera and then we wrapped the last day… that was just way more emotional and rewarding than anything else where I just jumped in as an actor, so yeah, I’d like to do more.

“War for the Planet of the Apes” arrives in theaters July 14, 2017.

There are thousands of working actors. Many of them are good. Some of them are great. A few of them can steal a scene in a way that elevates a project and increases the interest factor for an existing fanbase of a particular series or film.

David Haydn-Jones is that rare actor. When he was introduced as the mysterious Arthur Ketch of the British Men of Letters in season 12 of “Supernatural,” many fans of the show were left wondering (and hoping) if the character would be sticking around beyond a short guest stint. Thankfully, not only did Mr. Ketch play a strong role in the season’s throughline story, but his character, in large part to Haydn-Jones’ portrayal, has become more and more dynamic as the season has gone on.

While the fate of Arthur Ketch beyond season 12 has yet to be revealed, one thing is certain. David Haydn-Jones is an actor worthy of keeping a very close eye on.

We recently sat down with Haydn-Jones to discuss how he tapped into the character, the most electrifying day on set, and his surprising discovery of the extremely loyal “Supernatural” fandom.

TrunkSpace: We just have to say that your career has touched on two of our favorite guilty pleasures… “Supernatural” and holiday movies, so we thank you for that.
Haydn-Jones: (Laughter) Yeah. There’s a big Venn diagram crossover there.

TrunkSpace: (Laughter) From an acting standpoint, it seems like your character Mr. Ketch in “Supernatural” would be pure fun to inhabit and we’re curious what brought you to discovering him from a performance standpoint?
Haydn-Jones: Yeah. Totally. As you say, having lived in Hallmark land, nice guy world… it was really fun to transition into such an interesting character. I can only speak for myself, but I think a lot of actors like to move between eclectic roles, so to just inhabit a guy that was so pimp on the page and just hit all of the trappings of James Bond with the “Supernatural” monster twist, it was just delicious.

And also, I’ll just tell you for a little “Inside Sports,” it was a big mystery to me because they don’t really reveal to you… because they’re so worried about spoilers and they also don’t fully know where the guy is going yet… I was only booked for like three episode originally, so I was kind of unraveling the guy as I went. But what was nice was that some of my early choices really tracked. It was really fun.

TrunkSpace: It’s got to be a crazy ride when you’re playing a character whose full personality isn’t being revealed to you at the time of you diving into him.
Haydn-Jones: Oh yeah. Exactly. I would get a new script and then they would, what’s called “pinning” me for another episode or two in a row. I’d be like, “Oh, good!” And I’d always race to the back of the script and be like, “Is he dead yet?” (Laughter) I would literally jump to like page 62 and be like… Ketch, Ketch, Ketch. And what was nice was that on my PDF viewer… because I would get my first scripts digitally… I would just put “Ketch” in the search field and just go to the last page. I’d be like, “Ketch it winking and sneering and driving off into the distance. Yes! There’s maybe another job coming my way!”

TrunkSpace: Well, the interesting thing about “Supernatural” is that nobody really ever stays dead, so even if Ketch died, you’re never fully out! (Laughter)
Haydn-Jones: Well, fingers crossed. Who knows!

But yeah, I tried to make him with a big mask at the beginning. I called him the butler assassin, this sort of posh, British guy who was trying to be charming and jovial and all that stuff. Because I knew just from story arc and story theory that there was probably going to be unraveling that happened. I didn’t know what it was going to be, but I knew if I sort of played him as that soldier… that trained guy… that would play out well and now we found out that he and Mick were conditioned and brainwashed and probably, one could argue, abused. So, that all tracks nicely as the mask and the poshness sort of starts to get stripped away.

There’s definitely a stripping away of the English gentlemen for sure. Beast mode is beginning.

TrunkSpace: So did the writers give any indication that they always envisioned Ketch playing this larger role in the season from the start?
Haydn-Jones: Honestly, the writers don’t tell us anything until you get the script. There’s a lot of mystery involved and I know why they do it. There’s too many leaks, especially digitally now. Also though, I will say that the actors job is always to do detective work. The actors job is always to fill in the blanks from the cues on the pages. And the writing was all there and if you know story arc and story theory, you can sort of do your detective work. But then also, your job as the actor is to fill in nuance, backstory, and just kind of the choices that you’re making about the history of this guy. That may not necessarily be literally true for the headcanon, but will still play on the day because you’re just going scene to scene. That’s the only way you can really work as an actor, from an improv background anyway. You can’t know too much. You can’t play too much. All you can do is play the information in the scene, so in a way you’ve got to keep it simple and trust that the writers and the producers are taking you on the journey.

TrunkSpace: During the course of this season, was there a particular scene that you worked within that allowed you to flex the acting muscle and go to places that you didn’t expect with the character?
Haydn-Jones: Yeah. I would say, and this is not a spoiler now because it’s out, the fight scene with Mary (Samantha Smith) was incredibly challenging, very technical, and it was really fun, just as I say, to strip off the English gentleman and get into the beast mode with the guy. Show them that this guy has a really dark, physical underbelly to him. And just the technical things… the planning of a fight like that with throwing people over desks and taking punches and all that sort of stuff… you have to hose it down with all of this coverage. I think the fight lasts maybe a minute or two, the whole scene, but to shoot it was almost seven and a half hours. And you’re physically putting yourself in that position and throwing punches and falling on the ground and snapping your head and all that stuff, so physically it was really taxing. I’ve never done a full, hardcore fight scene in that way. And there’s a part of you that’s like, “Well, I’m fighting with a woman, but she’s supposed to be a badass hunter.” And Sam could not have been more generous and more trusting. We just gave each other hugs and were like, “We’re here for each other.” It was just one of those great days when you’re like, “I have the best dance partner in the world, we have total trust, and we are bringing it physically.” We were being safe but we were also pushing the envelope a little bit with each other. It was just electric. And Richard Speight Jr., he’s such an actor’s director, and he was just there for us and pushing us and yelling at us. That was an electrifying day as an actor.

TrunkSpace: And having Richard involved as a director, somebody who is so familiar with the series and the world itself, it must be very helpful considering how invested he is in “Supernatural” and the characters?
Haydn-Jones: Totally. And also, I would add to that too, he just knows the audience so well being such a cons guy and just knowing the fandom and what the audience loves and wants to see. And by all accounts, the fight really landed with the audience.

TrunkSpace: When you came into “Supernatural” you were stepping into a show that has spent over a decade establishing itself and the tone on set. Yes, it’s an ensemble show and actors come and go, but many of them have been there since the beginning or close to it. Was it intimidating coming into it as essentially the new guy on campus?
Haydn-Jones: So here’s where a little bit of research is good news and where a little bit of ignorance is really good news. (Laughter) I had no idea how worldwide or rabid this fandom was. I knew the show. I respected the show. I had auditioned for the show six times prior in the last 10 years. I knew it was popular and I knew it had carved out this space, but when you’re an actor in Hollywood and you’re just going from job to job to job, you can only do so much research on any given show. You’ve got to get a taste of everything and you sort of move on. So I had no idea about the whole convention thing or the SPN Family. So that was good that I didn’t know that because it’s been a really fun, wonderful discovery for me to enter this universe and sociology, so to speak. It’s been amazing. The other side of it is that Jared and Jensen, no joke, and the whole culture there, is an extremely welcoming family. They gave me hugs, big handshakes, and just, “Where you from, Dave? Who are you? Welcome.” Day one! Like, minute one! And when you have leadership like that, from the top… all the directors and Phil Sgriccia, the executive producer who was my first director. That guy is so in love with his show still, 13 years later, it’s just infectious. And it’s so rare to come to a set like that where 12 or 13 years in, people are still having a blast, still having a laugh, and welcoming their guests into their home with such grace. I think it’s that Texas, southern hospitality. They were just like, “Welcome to the show!” There’s a lot of gratitude on that set.

TrunkSpace: And you just touched on it, but the way that this show has resonated with its fanbase, to the point that it doesn’t only hit the convention scene but has it’s OWN conventions, it’s just amazing.
Haydn-Jones: Don’t I know it! And I’m booked for two already. The show has allotted me… I already did Fantasy Basel, my first one ever, in Switzerland. And I’m going to one in London and I’m going to Rome next week. So it’s just like, Holy Hannah! It’s exploding in a way that I never could have imagined last summer when I auditioned for the role.

TrunkSpace: As a series it also sort of defies the life cycle of popularity. Shows get big and then the audience fades, but “Supernatural” has and remains this slow burn with an unwavering fanbase.
Haydn-Jones: It’s incredible. It’s really record breaking TV in all metrics. Phil said, other than like “Law & Order,” it’s the only show in this genre that has done this many episodes and this many seasons, so I think it’s in record breaking territory now. And it will continue to be, especially now that it’s gotten renewed for 13 and maybe beyond.

TrunkSpace: Do you hope that playing a character like Mr. Ketch will open the eyes of casting directors and producers in the industry in terms of seeing you in a different light as an actor?
Haydn-Jones: Yeah, I really hope so. I’m definitely going to try to take as many clips from the show as possible and edit something tight together to showcase because it stretched me in so many ways. I’m totally grateful for the wheelhouse that I have, which is sort of the everyman, widowed dad Christmas guy… and those are all great jobs and I love them and that audience too… but when you get something like this, which is rich and meaty and mysterious and you get to wear suits and use grenade launchers and drive Bentleys… the little boy that wants to play James Bond is just like, “Oh yeah! Let me live here for awhile!”

“Supernarual” airs Thursdays at 8 p.m. on The CW.

Featured Photo Credit: Theo and Juliette Los Angeles

She acts. She sings. She writes music. She… winds up on a morgue slab in an abandoned hospital with maniacal cult killers on the outside and hideous monsters on the inside.

Wait. What?

That’s not where we expected to go in our description of Kathleen Munroe, but with her new film “The Void” due out on Friday, it’s a road we’re forced to travel down after hearing about what her character is put through in the movie. All that said, if things that go bump in the cinematic night are not your particular cup of tea, you can also currently stream Munroe in the new Amazon comedy series “Patriot” or watch her latest music videos featuring songs from her upcoming full-length album. Needless to say, she has been very busy.

We recently sat down with Munroe to discuss the masterful puppetry of “The Void,” her spaghetti western inspiration and our preteen excitement for “Supernatural,” which we forced upon her like hideous monsters inside an abandoned hospital.

TrunkSpace: We have an unhealthy, preteen girl-like obsession with “Supernatural” so we thought we could start there if you don’t mind?
Munroe: (Laughter) Of course. I get it. You’re not the first. It’s a fun show.

TrunkSpace: Being from Canada originally and with the show having shot there all of these years, is it sort of a right of passage for actors from Canada to appear on the show?
Munroe: I think it kind of is. We get so lucky with some of these shows just sticking around. Like that one just seemed to keep going, so yeah, it was amazing because it kind of spanned a generation, or a couple generations of actors coming up and ones that are more established. Yeah, it was definitely like earning your stripes going up to do an episode of “Supernatural.” I actually think the first episode that I did, was maybe like the second job I ever booked in LA and then went back up to Canada to do it. It really feels like an initiation, yeah.

TrunkSpace: It was quite awhile ago that you appeared on the show, but it has a large base of rabid fans, as evidenced by us asking these questions. Are you still recognized for having appeared in the show?
Munroe: Now and then. I did two episodes of the show and played two different characters, which I think there are a handful of us that did that. It’s really cool that they were open to that over time. It’s really people who are obsessed with the show who would even recognize me from it. I really only did the two, so it’s not like I was a face of the show or anything. So when people do know that I did it, I know that they’re like mega fans of “Supernatural,” which I think is really cool. I was fanatical about “Star Trek” growing up and so anyone who is fanatical about something, I totally relate to. I’m tickled when anyone knows me from that.

TrunkSpace: Sticking with the genre, your new film “The Void” is due out this week and people seem really excited about it based on what we’ve seen on social media.
Munroe: Yeah. It’s crazy. It’s cool to see that. We’ll see what people think when they actually see it, but I really love it. I chased after it when I saw the concept video because I just think Steve and Jeremy are so immensely talented. I was really happy to finally get to do it with them. I think they really succeeded in doing what they wanted to, so I’m excited to see what people think. You never know, but I think it’s something that I can stand behind.

TrunkSpace: The trailer looks like it has a combination of freaky mind-bending horror and then the gross out elements. Is that a fair assessment?
Munroe: Yeah. Totally. And the cool thing is that, for me, I’ve avoided doing anything that feels like sort of torture porn. I’ve certainly avoided as much of that kind of violent misogyny as I can and not that that is a characteristic of horror movies in general, but I think that exists. I think that there is also some stuff… the gratuitous dismemberment stuff isn’t really my brand. But what they do in the gross out stuff is just the most unbelievable artistry when it comes to puppets and practical effects and the performers who are acting as the monsters are just phenomenal. To me it’s like dance and gore and painting and sculpture and stuff. The gross out elements are absolutely there and they don’t hold back from them, which if you’re going to do a movie like this, why hold back at all… but it’s also never just for the sake of seeing how much we can torture people. It’s right along the line that I get excited about because I love those John Carpenter movies with the practical effects and I think that’s what drew me to it.

TrunkSpace: Those practical effects hold up over time.
Munroe: They really hold up. I remember being pretty late to see “Total Recall.” I didn’t see that movie until I was in my early 20s and it was just like, “Holy shit!” As over the top as some of it is and as cheesy as some of it is, it’s still integrated. When your action is integrated in the space that you’re acting in, I think it just feels different. With the practical effects and practical builds, it keeps an integration for the action of the movie that I think you just feel.

I think it’s a realm where creativity and creative problem solving really triumph. In any movie you’re working under certain constraints, whether it’s budget or time or location. I’ve never done a massive blockbuster, huge budget movie, but I’d imagine even then you’re working within certain boundaries, so the practical effects really benefit from highly creative thinkers because you have to figure out how to make something really impactful and really cool and something that pushes things forward within, often, some budget constraints or time constraints. The solutions that came out of some of those problems, I think, made for better parts of the movie because of the level of creativity that Steve and Jer have. If there was a problem, the solution would end up being sort of better than the original idea because they’re just really good at doing things on the fly and thinking things through.

I think what becomes clear, I hope anyway because I think this is true… there’s a mythology to it. And it’s a mythology that those two guys have thought through. It’s airtight to them. They don’t explain it either in the movie or in interviews, but you get the sense watching it that there is an internal logic to this world and whether we understand every detail of it or every origin point, isn’t the point. The point is that we feel like we’re immersed in this realm that they’ve really constructed in a very complete way. It’s a testament to their outside-of-the-box thinking and their meticulousness, without ever wanting to be kind of spoon feeding the audience plot details or mythology that they feel that they could just imply.

TrunkSpace: That’s a good approach to take because oftentimes if feels like some full-length horror films could be really great shorts but that the core concepts don’t always hold up to a feature.
Munroe: Yeah. They also know the traditions they’re working in. The movie embraces some of the archetypal characters of the genre movies. They’re not trying to make the most complex character portraits, although I think they do a really good job of giving us stuff to do that felt human… but they still give a good nod to the genre where they’re trying to kind of push it forward without breaking it open completely in a way that would sort of disrespect the tradition.

TrunkSpace: In the trailer it looks like you’re lying on a morgue slab. Safe to say that things don’t end well for your character?
Munroe: (Laughter) I’m not going to say that it doesn’t end well. I’m going to say that we go through some… through some tricky stuff. I won’t give any spoilers here, but I think part of what made me excited about this is that there is… there are three main female characters in the ensemble and they all really have a trajectory and they get some good moments. They’re not just the victims. So… yeah, things get tough for a bit.

TrunkSpace: Things go as best as they can in a horror movie?
Munroe: As best as they can in a horror movie set in a broken down hospital with cult killers outside and monsters inside. It goes as well as it could go given those circumstances. (Laughter)

The guys were great about leaving some ambiguity in a lot of areas of the story and I think that my character exists in a bit of ambiguity ultimately, which was cool.

TrunkSpace: So when you’re shooting a movie like “The Void,” do you go back to your hotel room and look behind the shower curtain and under the bed after a long night of shooting? Do you carry the eeriness back with you?
Munroe: (Laughter) Well, the thing that was so cool about this because I’ve never done something with this level of practical effects… and I don’t think things with this level of practical effects happen that often… and so what was wild was, the scene on the morgue table… there’s an effect that happens with sort of some puppetry. Some creature stuff happens to me on that table. It’s the first time I’ve ever worked in a way that what I was looking at in that space is what you see on screen. They built a whole sort of false body for me and had people hidden around the set operating this creature in a way that makes it just so real and so consistent… my reactions could be consistent with what we end up seeing because it’s not CG. I could look down and see these things that look like they’re happening to my body and because the guys are so good, it REALLY looks like it’s happening to my body. So, it’s FREAKY as HELL. With CGI, you’re imagining things. With this kind of stuff, you’re seeing it. And then, to go home to our hotel room in Sault Ste Marie, Canada… a pretty isolated place… and kind of look down and now I know what it’s like to see a creature inside my own body… it’s freaky. It’s totally freaky.

TrunkSpace: You’re also starring in “Patriot” for Amazon. From your perspective, how much has the industry changed from where you started your career to where you are today in terms of the amount of work available to actors given all of the new content creators and providers working in that space?
Munroe: It’s been dramatic. I feel so lucky to have seen this sort of upswing, especially in TV because that’s where I tend to get hired. I love doing features and I feel really lucky anytime I get the chance to do a good one, but I earn most of my living doing TV. And so to see the expansion in content… I guess it’s insisted on distinctiveness. I think the things that rise to the top now are things that are unlike other things. Because there’s so much that you can choose from, what really is going to make an impact is stuff that’s different… that we haven’t seen. Just in terms of creativity as an actor or creativity as anyone working in the industry, I think it’s a really, really exciting time because… like I know for “Patriot” with Amazon… one majorly stated criteria was distinctiveness. And Steve Conrad who created the show I give credit to 100 percent with this… just made something totally different, pulled no punches in terms of… he didn’t shy away from his vision at all. He just made the thing he wanted to make and we were given the parameters, largely, to make it. It couldn’t be more exciting because we get to be creative in a realm that’s also a commercial realm. It’s encouraging and it’s really, really cool.

TrunkSpace: It feels like a great time for actors to just act and not get caught up in that whole A-List mentality.
Munroe: Totally. And I’ve always thought of myself as a journeyman. I’ve been very lucky to work relatively consistently since I started. I’m not a mega star household name, but I work. And now with the stuff that’s coming out, it is… it’s really dream stuff. It’s great. It’s possible to have a really fulfilling career and I honestly couldn’t feel luckier right now.

TrunkSpace: And aside from all of this on-screen excitement, you also have a new album due out soon.
Munroe: I do! Thanks for paying attention. (Laughter) That’s just something that I love doing. Music was my first love, I guess. I don’t have any memory of not playing music. I’ve always done it. Now it’s a luxury to have some time off and be able to make some songs. I recorded in Hamilton, Ontario where I grew up with this guy named Mike Keire who produced with me. And then I can just call my friends in who are talented, amazing, generous musicians who come and help out. I’m really excited about it. It will be coming out… I’m not sure the exact date, but within the next two to two and a half months. And I’ll be getting content out bit by bit before then.

TrunkSpace: What did you set out to accomplish musically with this album that maybe you didn’t get to do last time out with your previous EP?
Munroe: This one is bigger in terms of instrumentation. The thing that I wanted to do with this collection was make it a little more ambitious. It’s a little more holistically moody. I was watching some spaghetti westerns and I wanted to have this feeling of… like sort of movie music from those old spaghetti westerns. I kept hearing strings, so I enlisted the help of an amazing musician named Anthony Carone from Ontario to arrange some string parts. So together we kind of worked out these… and he did all of the heavy lifting… but we worked out these pieces that incorporate strings and pedal steel and stuff that really has a vibe that, to me, feels pretty western. And that was what I wanted to do with this… capture a vibe in a pretty holistic way across the record. I hope we did it. I’m really proud of it and I’m really proud of what the people came in and worked on it did.

Learn more about Munroe’s music here.