Dean Winchester

If you steer clear of people with yellow eyes, call your car Baby, or recognize the value of salt in places other than the kitchen, chances are good that you’re fan of the series “Supernatural.” And if you are, you know that the Winchester brothers have had their fair share of friends and family come into their lives throughout the course of the show’s first 13 seasons, though none have left an impact quite like Sheriff Jody Mills. Now the maternal ass-kicking ally, portrayed perfectly by Kim Rhodes, is on the verge of spearheading her own spinoff series, “Wayward Sisters,” which viewers will get a taste of tonight when “Supernatural” returns to The CW following its mid-season hiatus.

We recently sat down with Rhodes to discuss her “Supernatural” road so far, the power and magic of the fandom, and what she’s most excited to explore with Jody in the new series.

TrunkSpace: “The road so far…” is a popular phrase associated with the series. Could you have ever expected that your “Supernatural” road would lead you here today, on the verge of your own spin-off series, “Wayward Sisters?”
Rhodes: I was so grateful every single second on that set. It never occurred to me to wish for more. And then when people started whispering, “Wouldn’t this be a good spin-off? Wouldn’t this be…” like, in my darkest heart there was a tiny little flicker of, “Yes, please! Please! I want to do this forever!”

But really, no expectation. No belief. I am astonished and I have no idea how this happened, with the exception of a group of powerful, vibrant, unbelievably joyous fans that were like, “No, no, no. We’d like this. Look what we can do.”

TrunkSpace: Obviously the fandom is very strong, but to be able to have a creative say and help a network venture towards a particular idea or concept is a very rare thing.
Rhodes: I’ve never heard of it happening before. Ever. Now, “Supernatural” has a very unique relationship with its fans. I remember being on a different show, and they actually said, “You’re here because of your fandom. We want to know how to do that with our show too.” I was like, “You can’t.”

I think the magic of “Supernatural” and the relationship with the fans, it cannot be recreated, because you can’t tell people what to do. This is the other thing. The fans are all individuals. It’s not a hive mind. You can’t just feed it. It is not a foregone conclusion that this spinoff will go. Because you can’t just seed somebody something and say, “Here, we call this ‘Supernatural,’” and have them say, “Yes, we love this.” They’re smart. They’re opinionated. They’re vocal. And they’re powerful. And it all comes from different ways of expressing love for the show “Supernatural” and for themselves and their own relationships and place in that. It’s pretty miraculous.

TrunkSpace: And because of that, it is called the SPN Family for a reason. They’re not afraid to say what they love and they’re not afraid to speak up when they don’t love something, but even then, it comes from a place of love.
Rhodes: It is, in all aspects, a family. I was talking to somebody else and I was like, “You know, nobody pushes your buttons like your family because they installed them.” It’s very easy for fans to be passive in this world, because nothing’s expected of them. But the “Supernatural” fandom expects a lot of itself, and they are passionate. I love that. It makes me identify. I’m like, “Yep, you’re me, I’m you! Yes!”

TrunkSpace: We know creatively the table has been set for “Wayward Sisters” throughout the course of the season, but this week’s episode really serves to put viewers at that table. Are you experiencing any sort of nerves in terms of how it will be received by the fandom?
Rhodes: You know how Holly Hunter cried in “Broadcast News?”

TrunkSpace: Yeah.
Rhodes: There you go. That’s me. I was fortunate enough to have four episodes on a completely different show, playing a completely different character. I’ve been on “Criminal Minds” for the last couple months, and it kept me distracted. Today is the first day I’m not on “Criminal Minds.” I was like, “Oh, maybe I’m not completely okay. Maybe I’m just repressing all of the terror and hope I’ve ever felt in my entire life that has culminated in this moment.” Yeah, that’s far more likely is that I’ve just been repressing it.

TrunkSpace: Would you say tonally that tonight’s episode of “Supernatural” is going to be representative of what “Wayward Sisters” will become?
Rhodes: Boy, I wish I could answer that. I don’t know. They haven’t told me anything because they know I don’t keep secrets well. That said, what is definitely indicative of everything they’ve said they want is how high the bar is set. We didn’t cut corners as actors. We didn’t cut corners with storytelling. It is brutal. The fights are hard, the work was tough. We trained, all of us, trained. Both physically and with weapons. The bar was set high. I can safely say that should this go to series, we will only keep raising the bar for ourselves. We want to exceed the fans’ expectations. And their expectations are pretty damn high.

TrunkSpace: That’s the thing. Sometimes expectations can be a blessing and a curse, because people are excited but at the same time they have their own set ways of what they envision something will be.
Rhodes: Yes. Now that is definitely something we are aware of. I had said before, I would like to say again, give it a chance. Just because you don’t see all of your expectations met in one episode doesn’t mean we aren’t laying the groundwork, particularly in terms of representation. “Wayward Sisters” has really opened up the number of voices and perspectives that the stories are being told from. Within that, if you don’t look at something and go, “Oh, well they forgot this…” Maybe not. You can’t eat the entire meal in the first bite.

TrunkSpace: Yeah, it’s not a movie. It’s not an hour and a half. It’s a long journey.
Rhodes: Yeah. And also, you’ve seen the episode so you know what I mean when I say there’s probably going to be a moment when the fans feel a little betrayed. When they’re going to be like, “Wait a minute, you did it again to us?”

TrunkSpace: Right.
Rhodes: Just hang on. And that’s going to be my motto for the entire journey, is just hang on. Just hang on. You think you know. You don’t know. Just hang on.

TrunkSpace: Obviously you’ve seen the character Jody grow over the course of your time on the series. What are you most excited about from a character’s journey in terms of what we could possibly see her go through over the course of her own series?
Rhodes: I am so excited to see Jody make some mistakes, and watch other people have to clean up her mess. Jody’s been pretty on-target so far, because that’s how she’s served the show. We know she’s made mistakes, but we haven’t needed to watch any of them because that wasn’t pushing the storyline of “Supernatural” forward. I would like to think that within “Wayward Sisters” Jody’s going to make mistakes. And she’s going to have to learn some stuff, which is hard as a senior member of a group. Because a lot of my identity as a person when I’m in a situation like that is, “Oh yeah, I got this. Let me tell you how to get this.” And Jody’s going to have to realize that she ain’t always got it and she’s going to have to learn from the girls around her. I’m looking forward to seeing what she learns from them.

TrunkSpace: Jody’s always been very supportive of Claire, Alex, and Patience in terms of them taking on the responsibilities of being Hunters, but as she becomes more invested in the group and as dangers increase, do you think she’ll have second thoughts about that?
Rhodes: I think that’s always going to be with her. I think that’s definitely a note to her, because she’s experienced loss at the hands of the supernatural. And really, nobody else has lost the kinds of things that she’s lost. Jody is the one who’s painfully aware of what’s at stake in this kind of life and so she’s always going to have to struggle to allow people to be who they need to be, to fight the fight that needs to be fought.

TrunkSpace: She’s taken these girls under her wing at a time when they needed her, but we would imagine that Jody needs them just as much, if not more given those holes left to be filled in her personal life?
Rhodes: Well, I also think for me, I prefer to phrase it not so much filling the hole – because those holes have unique shapes and nothing will ever fill them – but to remember that someone’s capacity to love, and I have personally experienced some pretty traumatic losses in my life, the loss will never be replaced. But the love continues to be expressed when I choose to love someone else. And love myself. I think that is something that Jody is aware of. She’s never going to replace her husband and her son. However, being of service and finding hope again is the best thing she can do for their memory. And those girls give her both of those things. She can love again, and she can hope again, because those girls are in her life.

TrunkSpace: Finally, Kim, you sort of touched on this at the start of our chat… how grateful you were to be on the set each and every time you got the call. Everybody we have spoken to who has been involved in the series or who has worked on the series, they all have that same point of view, which is that they genuinely love the experience and being a part of this universe. Having been in this industry for as long you have, is that rare? Because it seems pretty rare from an outside perspective.
Rhodes: Do you believe in love at first sight?

TrunkSpace: Actually, yeah.
Rhodes: Have you experienced it?

TrunkSpace: Yes.
Rhodes: That’s pretty fucking rare isn’t it?

TrunkSpace: It is.
Rhodes: It’s like that. It exists. People who have never experienced think it’s a myth. People who have experienced it know how precious it is and how rare it is. It’s magic.

“Supernatural” returns tonight on The CW.

Most shows have a difficult time maintaining an audience for more than a few years, but with CW mainstay “Supernatural” currently in its 13th season and showing no signs of losing steam, it’s difficult to imagine a time where the Winchester brothers are not killing monsters and, as has been the case over the course of the series, being killed by monsters.

The strength of “Supernatural” goes beyond its stars Jensen Ackles and Jared Padalecki however. Yes, the series could not exist without them, but the dynamic demon-hunting duo would not be as engaging to an audience without a supporting cast of characters who not only define the in-series lore, but help reshape it even after more than a decade on the air.

Actress Emily Swallow did just that when she joined the series as Amara, God’s sister, in season 11. Her connection with Ackles’ character Dean both riled and excited fans and her very presence sent ripples throughout the fictional universe and lead to one of the biggest reveals in the history of the show, that the beloved reoccurring character Chuck (played by Rob Benedict) was in fact God, which was long hinted at by the writers and presumed by fans.

We recently sat down with Swallow to discuss her take on the “Supernatural” fan base, why she loves attending the conventions now that her storyline has (temporarily) buttoned up, and what her favorite stage acting experience has been to date.

TrunkSpace: You entered the “Supernatural” universe in a big way via a character who ends up becoming a part of the foundational lore of the series. How has the fandom, one that is extremely passionate about its characters and ongoing storyline, welcomed you into the SPN Family?
Swallow: I have never experienced a fandom that is so passionately protective of a show and its characters. Because of that, I was understandably greeted with a degree of skepticism from the fans, especially because I had googly eyes for Dean AND was causing a bit mayhem wherever I went. I remember Misha (Collins) telling me I should be prepared for the fans to hate me after the episode when Dean and Amara kissed! I was excited about Amara’s mission, though, and I hoped that, as her story unfolded, the fans would realize she was deeply hurt and misunderstood and that THAT was why she did the things she did. I found this to be true; because Amara ultimately needed what the other characters who are central to the show needed – love and family – the fans rejoiced for her when she and Chuck made up.

TrunkSpace: One of the great things about the series is that it’s a bit like a secret club. If you watch the show, you’re in. If you don’t, you may not even know that the show is still on the air. But the truly amazing part of that is that the cast seems to be a willing participant in that club. There’s a lot less separation between those who are on the show and those who are in the fandom than there is with other shows. Do you think that has helped keep the audience vested and engaged for what is now 13 seasons?
Swallow: Absolutely, but it goes both ways – everyone involved with the show is keenly aware that we owe a LOT to a fan base; without their active involvement, we might have run out of steam several seasons ago. It’s a very exciting thing to feel the energy from such an engaged audience. I have felt a similar passion from theater audiences, but this is new for me in television, and I LOVE it. It keeps us energized while we’re exploring the storylines and makes us even more excited to see what comes next.

TrunkSpace: Another really unique aspect of the show is that, even when cast members are absent from the series, they’re still engaged. Everyone we have ever spoken to who has appeared on the show has had the same experience… there’s nothing quite like it in terms of on-set atmosphere. Has that been your experience as well and what is the source of that universal feeling?
Swallow: It’s true! To be honest, I felt more involved with the show and the fans once I’d already shot my season. This was partly because I just didn’t get to work with many other actors until the end of my season (Amara led a pretty dang solitary existence), and partly because of the lag time between when I shot and when episodes aired. My involvement in conventions didn’t really start until I had finished Amara’s storyline. The conventions continue to surprise me. Some of my favorite actors to collaborate with at conventions didn’t even appear in my season of SPN, but I get to sing with them, play with them, improvise with them and match wits in a way that is SO much fun! The conventions also give me a chance to be myself with the fans – Amara is quite far from me in terms of my natural disposition and temperament (thank goodness), so it’s great that I can be super goofy and dorky. I think this all happens simply because there are a lot of actors who have been on the show who are generous, playful and silly and love the interaction that the conventions provide.

TrunkSpace: From a performance standpoint, what did Amara offer you that you hadn’t had a chance to experience before? Was there something about her personality, how she viewed the world, that made her interesting for you on a level that may be different from what fans saw in her?
Swallow: I LOVED what the writers gave me for Amara! To me, the most interesting exploration had to do with finding her very human vulnerability, and trying to connect to that place in her that isn’t immune to pain and fear and hope and dreams…while it was thrilling to embody such an epic character, in order to believe in my acting choices I had to tap into the humanity that the show’s writers are so gifted at bestowing on the characters. Early on, I decided that I would probably serve her much better if I focused on stillness and a steady focus rather than trying to SHOW her power. That made sense to me too because, since she’d been locked up for all of time, she had a LOT of information to try and take in from the world around her, so I let her be always watching and waiting until she was stirred to react to something. It makes me relieved when I hear fans talk about how conflicted they were about hating her. Even though she reacted in ways that were destructive, they often say they felt so sorry for her because she was alone and misunderstood. I hope that’s true for most viewers. To me, “evil” characters are most interesting because of the vulnerability and pain they are trying to cover up, and I think we can all relate to feeling lonely, confused, lost, not heard… I loved that about Amara.

TrunkSpace: You had some really great, meaty scenes with Dean (played by Jensen Ackles) and Lucifer (played, well, in season 11 it is a bit confusing) that went beyond dialogue and delivery. The facial expressions… longing and bitterness turned from emotions into physical representations… it was some really powerful acting. Did you get to go places with Amara that you never expected to when you signed up to play her?
Swallow: Absolutely! With Jensen, the scenes came rather organically; we knew from the beginning that they had a bond that neither of them could really explain or understand, and so we just committed to that and didn’t try to logic it out. There’s something freeing about that kind of primal connection and it meant that, even if we weren’t entirely clear on where their relationship was headed from episode to episode, that internal struggle was there. Plus, Jensen is such an honest, present actor that it’s impossible NOT to want to connect with him! As for my Lucifer scenes, I never got to work with Mark (Pellegrino), but rather dealt with Castiel-as-Lucifer. That was fun because Misha was having so much fun channeling Mark! With him, it was interesting because I felt like Amara’s treatment of Lucifer was less about Lucifer himself and more about trying to get God/Chuck’s attention, so it was almost as if I was trying to gauge what HIS reaction would be when I was talking to Lucifer or (more often) torturing him. I felt wonderfully supported in everything I tried for Amara, and that led to me feeling safe to go from joy to rage to hope to fear in a heartbeat. I have to thank all the actors I worked with for that!

TrunkSpace: It seems nobody is ever truly gone when it comes to the “Supernatural” universe. Amara is currently on a sabbatical with her younger brother God. As the Winchesters continue to get themselves into trouble, has there been discussion about if and/or when she will return?
Swallow: I sure hope so! For now, I think Chuck and Amara are traveling with their band and driving people crazy hogging the mic at karaoke nights. (Laughter)

TrunkSpace: You recently worked on the animated series “Castlevania.” Do you take a different approach to voice acting than you do your on-screen work? Is the character discovery/journey the same?
Swallow: The beginning of the process is the same; I still look first at the character’s wants, needs, hopes and fears and make decisions based on her circumstances in relation to that. But my experience recording VO has been in a sound booth with few or no other actors, so it is indeed very different! Much more of that is left up to the director and editors.

TrunkSpace: “Castlevania” is a property that has had a lot of people invested in it from the time that they were kids. Does that put extra pressure on those involved in a project when it automatically has a specific set of expectations from an existing fan base?
Swallow: Not really, because I know that, if I try to predict what people want, I’ll probably do horrible work that doesn’t really try anything bold! I know it’s impossible to please everyone, so I just try to stay true to my gut and what I connect to in any project, and then make sure I do a thorough exploration with the director and other actors. At the end of the day, I think people who truly love a project or certain pre-existing characters will appreciate that honest, heartfelt commitment more than any attempts at imitating a style or another performance of a role.

TrunkSpace: People say that television is the editor’s medium and that film is the director’s medium. In your opinion, is the stage where the most amount of emphasis is placed on performance?
Swallow: Absolutely. When I’m on stage, I have much more control over the character’s journey from beginning to end. To an extent, I can make the audience look wherever I want and I get to find the performance for THAT show in THAT moment, and I love the changes that can occur night to night because of that. When we walk onstage to do a performance, we are often aware of world events that may be on the audience’s mind that day, or the experience they had walking into the theatre, and that collective consciousness means, to some extent, we’re on a similar wavelength. We are all experiencing space and time together for a couple of hours. With anything recorded, that experience is entirely different; not only is the audience far removed in time from when the work was performed, but the editor is controlling the timing, the actors they’re looking at at any given moment, where commercial interruptions occur…as an actor, I have to operate with faith that what I’m exploring in the character will come through even if I don’t know how a scene will ultimately be presented.

TrunkSpace: What is the most memorable stage/house you’ve ever performed on/in and why has it stuck with you?
Swallow: My favorite show was “Nice Fish,” which I performed a few years ago at the Guthrie Theatre in Minneapolis. It is a play that Mark Rylance co-authored, co-directed and co-starred in. It was a HUGE joy to work on because it was a brand new play and we discovered some of the scenes through improvisation in rehearsals. We even had parts of the show that weren’t ever written down – we discovered them anew at every performance! Mark is such a generous and playful and trusting performer, and he gave me courage to risk failure and try things that frightened me. Plus, I got to play a Norse Goddess living in a sauna ice house on a frozen lake in the midwest! That whole rehearsal and performance process challenged me in such fun and exciting ways, and I loved my fellow actors. We had so much trust and love built up that we were able to make really thrilling discoveries in front of an audience.

As “Supernatural” prepares to enter its 13^th season, it makes sense that a number of actors have been relied upon to play young Dean Winchester. Whether due to flashbacks or evil, age-altering spells, the writers of the long-running series have never been afraid to delve deeper into the “road so far” in order to give fans a glimpse at how the Winchester boys came to be. And while many have played the pie-loving eldest brother over the years, there has been only one actor capable of completely capturing what Jensen Ackles created in Dean Winchester and that actor is Dylan Everett.

We recently sat down with Everett to discuss how he became a lean, mean, Dean machine, why he enjoyed playing in both the comedy and drama worlds that the show is known for, and what we can expect from his new Starz series “Insomnia.”

TrunkSpace: You’ve done a ton of film and television roles over the course of your career, but to “Supernatural” fans, you’re the quintessential young Dean Winchester because you play the character so well. Did you have a chance to sit down with Jensen and pick his brain to get a handle on the Dean delivery and mindset?
Everett: Actually, believe it or not, I didn’t get to meet Jensen until, I think, it was the last day of the first episode that we shot. Basically everything I went off of was what I could find online or from the several seasons of the show that I watched before. Even after that, I don’t think I ever actually got to sit down with him and discuss the character, which was unfortunate, because given the nature of the role, we weren’t exactly in the same place at the same time.

TrunkSpace: And yet you absolutely nailed what Jensen had created in Dean.
Everett: Jared helped me out big time. I’ve mentioned before, in previous interviews, but he totally had my back on set, which was big for me. Knowing that someone’s been doing that role for so long, you want to make sure you do it as well as you can and that everyone’s happy with it, including and especially Jensen and the fans.

TrunkSpace: The fans are so rabid for the show. The people who watch it adore it and yet the people who don’t watch the show aren’t even sure if it’s on the air anymore, which is kind of cool. It’s become a bit like a secret club.
Everett: Yep. It totally is. It’s a really well-kept secret. But, it’s been on for almost 15 years, so they’re doing something right. And again, the fans, they keep coming back for more.

TrunkSpace: You did three episodes as young Dean Winchester. Have you felt the reach of the fanbase since doing them and have you seen your own fanbase grow because of it?
Everett: Oh, big time. Yeah. It’s a really high-profile show, and again, the fan base is so committed and devoted to the show that any time a new actor steps into the show, they just go nuts for them. I got lucky. I get to be a younger version of one of the lead characters, so, it was amplified even more for that reason.

TrunkSpace: You grew up in Canada. It seems like a bit of a rite of passage for Canadian actors to appear on the show seeing it has been on for so long and because it shoots up in Vancouver.
Everett: Absolutely. I’ve experienced it. I experienced that similarly with “Degrassi,” where it was, as you said, sort of a rite of passage where everybody and their dog has been on the show. But it’s so great because it’s such a fantastic show. It’s so much fun to do and it was a really exciting experience to get to do that.

TrunkSpace: “Supernatural” writers have always been masterful about blending comedy and drama together and one of the episodes you did in particular, “About a Boy,” did just that. From a performance standpoint, what was it like to get to play in both of those worlds within the same show?
Everett: As you just pointed out, they do it so well, between comedy and drama, they balance it quite perfectly. There was a bit of everything to be had there in the episodes that I got to do. It was really juicy and it was a challenge, as an actor, to sort of push me in a different direction that I hadn’t really explored before. It’s one thing to come up with a character on your own as an actor, but to kind of break habits and really shed your own personality to adopt another one… it was a really cool experience.

TrunkSpace: You also played Mark-Paul Gosselaar playing Zack Morris in the “Unauthorized Saved By the Bell Story.” What a crazy role to take on because you’re actually playing the actor playing the character. So many layers!
Everett: That was exactly it. It was a paradigm on its own. I guess the only difference really was I think I had more parallels with young Mark-Paul Gosselaar than I did with Dean Winchester. It came a little bit more naturally, whereas with the Dean Winchester performance, it had to be a little bit more deliberate on my end. But again, I still had so much fun on both sides.

TrunkSpace: And jumping back to “Supernatural,” in the episode previous to “About a Boy” you were actually playing young Dean Winchester, but in “About a Boy” you were playing old Dean Winchester made young. Mind blown! (Laughter)
Everett: (Laughter) I know. There’s so many angles to it. It’s hard to keep up. I got to experience it on both sides. I had so much fun doing both. It’s challenging because I get to take on Jensen’s character. It’s hard to break your own habits as an actor and adopt somebody else’s.

TrunkSpace: So is it more difficult when you’re playing a character who previously exists or a person who exists in the real world, as opposed to seeing something on the page and creating the character yourself?
Everett: It’s just different. I guess even with the Dean Winchester performances, as with your own characters, there’s a part of yourself that always bleeds through no matter what. But when playing somebody else, especially, like I said, the way that Jensen has played Dean so iconically over the years, you’ve really got to step up and not let it bleed through so much. And that’s tricky.

TrunkSpace: Did you have to play Dean with three different directors giving you feedback as well?
Everett: Yeah. You get direction from the director. You’re getting direction from Jared, who made a very good point to me on set. He said, “I’m going to give you a lot of feedback. I’m going to give you a lot of advice. And it’s not because I’m trying to tell you what to do as an actor, but it’s only because I know Dean. The only person who knows Dean better than me is Jensen. And Jensen’s not here.”

And he’s absolutely right. I took every bit of advice he threw my way and tried to incorporate it as best I could.

TrunkSpace: We watched the trailer for your new Starz series “Insomnia,” which looks not too far from where we’re headed in society right now. (Laughter) Where does your character fall into things?
Everett: I’m not too sure what I’m allowed to talk about. (Laughter) Big ensemble cast. It’s really dark. Really gritty. Really hard hitting show. My character was a total kind of left turn from what I’m used to doing, which was good. You kind of take steps as an actor, and that was the next step for me.

But it’s a really dark, really conflicted character who has a lot of edge to him. Hopefully, when it drops, people get excited and they respond to it.

TrunkSpace: In a lot of ways you grew up in the industry. Is it important for you, as you get older, to sort of look toward those darker roles and to break the habits of casting directors in terms of how they view you and your capabilities as an actor?
Everett: Yeah. That’s always the trick for the actor, right? To not fall into that typecast role. I’ve been very lucky as a young actor. I’ve kind of progressed slowly but surely, and I’ve got to experience everything from the kids roles, like “Wingin’ It,” to more adolescent roles like “Degrassi” and “Supernatural,” and then something like this, which is pretty dark.

At the end of the day, as an actor, you’re just happy that you get work. Of course, you’re always looking for certain roles and for different avenues to explore, character-wise, but at the end of the day, work is work. And I’ll always take the jobs.

“Insomnia” is set to premiere later this year on Starz.